Tiki Bar TV Forum

Hear Hear!

I couldn't agree more with the above statement. Kevin is in fact standing up for our rights of fair use (on the argument that copy protection of media such as movies violates our fair use rights), all while placing himself and his company in legal jeopardy.  Sadly historically these martyrs have not fared well in the courts.... yes I said martyrs because these companies are gone, and the people largely forgotten.

So for those of you that participated in the virtual protest... realize that you may well have set in motion the end of Digg, and possibly Kevins career.

Damn it.  I like Kevin; but seriously the guy has to get his business sense going.  Clients may help a business; but you can never let them take you down when they get pissy. 

The client isn't always right; a business needs to help them make informed decisions.  I don't always take every suggestion a client has when designing a computer program; some suggestion are downright illogical and unfeasible, and I've had to let clients know this.

Oh, and helping pirate HD-DVD (removal of copyright protection) is frigging illegal (sorry CA, I gotta disagree with ya; but it would be nice to know more about what you are writing).  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  If some one starts talking about backups and the like, they are completely full of shit.  In analogy, breaking the lock on the door is still considered breaking and entering, even though you don't take the stereo inside.

Kevin needs to get his balls back and fight the establishment.  The establishment in this case are the anonymous users, the people who don't give two craps about him or his website that he has worked so hard to maintain.

Anonymous people.  Not even brave enough to give themselves a name for the cause.  That's just a dick move.

The DMCA and similar laws are flawed, stomp on fair use and make any minor act a horrendous so-called copyright violation.  They simply go to far.  Its only when people take a stand against unjust and unfair laws will they get changed.  The very fact that the DMCA in the US got passed in the first place was because the common person did not get involved in mass population when it was being developed.  If you feel strongly against laws that violate your fair use rights and you live in an actual democracy, then get involved.  Show your support.  Look into what you can do to help organizations and individuals fight wrongful legislation and prevent wrongful legislation in the first place.  A good organization to start with is the EFF at www.eff.org.

Well, hopefully these same people pool their money together to help him out when he gets sued...
along with everyone else who enjoys Digg

In the New York Times today.

And this on Boing Boing

We people, the users of Digg, aren't really jerks. If we stood up for the Code and forced the guys at Digg to keep up with the links, we sure will back him up if those guys for the Copyrights sue Kev's company, we'll obviously do our best to back him up.

you sir, are completly wrong. I understand that you know Kevin Rose and therfore you 'feel for his pain', but lets be clear about something. Kevin Rose wouldn't be Kevin Rose (a name today assosiated with Digg) without Digg users. He may be the niceset guy in universe, your best friend, heck maybe even your lover. But the bottom line is that when he (i.e. admins) deleted the posts and banned the users, they  didn't do that because that was in the best interest of the users (Diggers in this case) but beacuse of their own interest (to save the company from infrigment lawsuits/bancrupcy, shutting down, ect..)
In other words, he was behaving like any other coorporation, while promoting  (hell digg got popular because of that) as asub-culture of 'rebellious' users. (whatever that means)

Simply, They should act differently and not to delete the posts, and ban the users.

I agree with you though that it was brave of him to do what he did afterwards, but I see the different kind of bravery  there. I see a courage 9or at least i wish it was that kind of courage) where one admits that he has made a mistake, beacuse if it was otherwise - where he stood up just because of the users outcry, (that's what you are saying) then he is still..well..a pussy.


Courage is to risk everthing for what you stand for, and be responsible for your actions... not to "delete the post and ban the users and if that dosen't work out, then change your opinion and go with/against the 'mob'"

you sir have no idea what bravery is.

Last edited by metamorphosis (2007-05-04 03:20:45)

I touched briefly on the subject; Wednesday 2nd 2007

"...whatever you think about the situation, you really do have to respect Kevin Roses' loyalty to the community by listening to them and making this bold statement"
http://www.voodish.co.uk/articles/what- … -for-digg/

I fully respect Blog posts like this; it's nice to see people are willing to stand with those who have basically stuck their neck out for them.  Promptly Dugg

Duck into the shop doorway, here they come, the runaway herd of independent minds. But wait, that's not a rush of riotous anarchic autodidacts  playing fast n loose with Kevin Roses's livelihood; no, it's a bleating, blathering, bullshiting stampeding herd of conformists yelling in one shrill, slightly scared voice 'The mob, The mob.'  So it goes . . .

Ah yes, that ancient phrase much-loved and much-needed by aristocrats, autocrats, plutocrats and technocrats! Amazing how the rugged individualists huddle together and mouth it in unison in defense of their uniform ideas, against whom? We The People! I picture young Tikitoffs shweiking 'Daddy, Daddy, the mob's at the gate.'

Crowds of peaceful protesters have often been mown down but, in fact, when mob's are on the move they've tended to be conservative constructs. As Christopher 'Golden Shilling' Hitchins said: "The 'Church and King' mobs unleased by the authorities in Georgian England were outlets for energy that might otherwise be directed AT Church and King."


................................................................................................................

In the United States . . . recent public opinion polls have revealed that an actual majority of young people in their teens, the voters of tomorrow, have no faith in democratic insitutions, see no objection to the censorship of unpopular ideas, do not believe that government of the people by the people is possible, and would be perfectly content, if they can continue to live in the style to which the boom has accustomed them, to be ruled, from above, by an oligarchy of assorted experts. That so many of the well-fed young television watchers should be so completely indifferent to the idea of self-government, so blankly uninterested in freedom of thought and the right to dissent, is distressing, but not too surprising.

'Free as a bird,' we say, and envy the winged creatures for their power of unrestricted movement in all the three dimensions. But, alas we forget the dodo. Any bird that has learned to grub up a good living without being compelled to use its wings will soon renounce the privilege of flight and remain forever grounded. Something analogous is true of human beings. If the bread is supplied regularly and copiously three times a day, many of them will be perfectly content to live by bread alone - or at least by bread and circuses alone . . .

"for nothing" the Inquisitor insists, "has ever been more insupportable for a man of a human society than freedom." Nothing, except the absence of freedom; for when things go badly, and the rations are reduced and the slave drivers step up their demands, the grounded dodos will clamour again for their wings - only to renounce them, yet once more ,when times grow better and the the dodo-farmers become more lenient and generous. The young people who now think so poorly of democracy may grow up to become fighters for freedom. The cry of 'Give me television and hamburgers, but don't bother me with the responsibilites of liberty,' may give place, under altered circumstances, to the cry of 'Give me Liberty or give me death.'

Aldous Huxley, Brave New World Revisited, Chatto & Windus, 1974.

Well atleast Tiki Bar got loads of new members thanks to Digg today

In the end this is the fair use debate in the context of the DMCA which as written violates fair use. Only when the law is changed by legislation or found unconstitutional by court will this brought to the path of resolution.  In the meantime this (debate over takedown notices) will always occur. 

I will be more explicit: If this fucking shit pisses you off and you are really serious about fighting the assault on your digital rights then go to www.eff.org and become a member.  Also DONATE until it fucking hurts.  The EFF has been fighting the DMCA and other offenses against digital rights since they were collective twinkles in the so-called entertainment industry's eye.  The EFF needs funds to do it.  If an actual lawsuit is brought against Digg and Kevin the EFF will no doubt join the fight.  Additionally, in the US, these donations to the EFF are tax deductible.  So, if you are serious, which you all sound like you are, join the EFF today.  If you already are a member consider donating today.

Thanks and Cheers!

Oh yeah, I like the quote from Aldous Huxley.  I am amazed at how little younger people today (younger than me) do not get involved in politics.  I find it horrifying that people who can vote and change their governments, voluntarily accept the prohibition that has been placed on them (raising the drinking age, laws that have lowered BAC's to the point of being ridiculous along with mandatory minimum sentencing).  Absolutely fucking mind blowing.

Last edited by BuBBy (2007-05-04 05:29:07)